You're Only Human—Interview with Kelly Kapic
My interview with Kelly Kapic exploring what it means to embrace being human.
Toward the end of 2021 I enjoyed reading through Kelly Kapic's latest book You're Only Human and had the opportunity to interview him about some key themes and ideas. You can grab a copy of the book right here. Kelly has so many helpful insights within the interview that are only further expanded on in the book.
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Tyler Braun: Your latest book "You’re Only Human" is about embracing our limitations as human beings. What are some of the best examples that come to mind for how we try to live like infinite creatures?
Kelly Kapic: I think this affects us in countless ways. Let me ask readers this question: when you put your head on the pillow at night, how often do you feel like you did everything you wanted to? How often do you feel like you were a failure, but that sense of failure is primarily about how much you didn’t get done?
This affects us all, from overscheduled teenagers to employees always feeling that they should have done more. The cultural air we breathe fills us with a sense that “you should do more.” We feel bad about not volunteering enough at Church, not working hard enough at our jobs, not spending enough time with our parents, partners, or friends. We should read more, exercise more, keep up with contemporary events, etc. The lists can go on and on. Subtly behind all of these endless lists and pressures is the whisper, “you should be able to do more.” This is the temptation to believe you should be infinite.
My great concern in the book is that as Christians, we have often confused our finitude (limits!) with sin. We constantly feel guilty, but often we are feeling guilty for things we should not feel guilty about. Rather than feeling like we need forgiveness for not being able to do everything, we may need to ask forgiveness for ever imaging we could! If we make that adjustment, it can liberate our lives! God never intended for us to do all of this stuff in the first place. We are only creatures, and the Creator is comfortable with the limits he designed us to have.
Tyler: I loved the breakdown of Galatians 2:20, specifically the emphasis on what "union with Christ" actually is. How do we maintain our own human existence while also embracing that we are united to Christ?
Kelly: Obviously, I unpack this much more fully in the chapter, but I will just say here that we too often we confusion identity in Christ with sameness. For example, some portray true spirituality in purely extroverted terms, imagining that real Christians should be eager to share deeply personal things with large groups of people; others, however, imagine spirituality in purely introverted terms, so that godliness is understood as loving to be alone with God for long periods of time. We could add various versions of this kind of idealized projection that happens. Often, the vision cast—in whatever form—reflects the leader providing it. An introverted pastor paints a picture of faithfulness that (unintentionally!) is framed in purely introverted ways, because they are introverts. But this too often unintentionally confuses sanctification with sameness.
My main concern with this kind of approach is that too often shame sneaks in. It can feed a sense that we really need to be someone else to be really pleasing to God. I’m too passionate, or too quiet, or too…. While Paul is clear that we have been crucified and risen with Christ, he also maintains “I still live.” What does that mean?
It means God doesn’t hate you; he loves what he made. He loves your particularity, your difference… he loves you. But he is opposed to the sin that so distorts and disorders the good of his creatures. From a Christian perspective, the Creator is interested in liberating you from your sin so that you might reflect and grow into the fullness of what he intended for you. Sanctification isn’t about all of us wearing khaki’s and listening to the same genre of music; it is more about the beauty, freedom, and holiness of God setting free his children. In Christ we are set free by the Spirit to live and love in a way that honors our distinct personalities and gifts for the good of the church and world.
Tyler: You devote two chapters to the importance of us being physical people. We are not just thinking things or brains on a stick. We are people of flesh. With that said, much of our society seems to worship the flesh, even pursuing expensive surgeries to maintain a physical body’s supposed beauty. How do we embrace being physical people without becoming worshipers of our bodies?
Kelly: Yes, there is a real tension here. On the one hand, we are often obsessed with bodies, yet, at the very same time, we have a society packed with people—almost all of us!—who experience some kind of shame about our bodies. Research is showing that the endless manipulated images we all absorb are affecting how we view ourselves and others. Body image issues are skyrocketing, not just for women, but increasingly for men as well. I can’t go into all the data and consequences here, but let’s just say this isn’t something affecting a small part of society. We are all dealing with this in one form or another.
From a Christian perspective, I think the path toward a healthier understanding of our bodies can best come through a greater appreciation of the incarnation: the Son of God assumed a human nature and ‘became man.’ Jesus is God’s great ‘Yes’ to his creation. Being a creature isn’t inherently sinful, but good and honorable. Jesus is like us in all ways, yet without sin. The limits that Jesus had (e.g., he needed sleep, asked questions, required food, etc.) are not negatives, but good parts of creaturely life. We must never forget that the God of Creation is the same as the God of Redemption. By reconnecting this truth, I think we can gain a life-giving vision for embodied existence, that both honors our physicality without making us worshipers of the body.
Tyler: As an antidote to anxiety you mention a focus on "the fear of the Lord." I’ve heard a lot of different Biblical verses and ideas mentioned surrounding the topic of anxiety but never that. Why is the fear of the Lord something you see as vital to focus on for our anxious age?
Kelly: I really enjoyed researching and writing that chapter, and I pray folks will find it helpful. In short, the ‘fear of the Lord’ is an ancient biblical way of speaking about an awareness of God’s presence. Becoming more mindful of God’s kind, compassionate, holy presence can transform our lives in subtle and profound ways. By becoming more attuned to God’s presence, we also learn to be more present with other people. Part of our increased anxiety is related to our struggle to be present with one another because of endless distractions and nagging worries, as well as the pressure to always be thinking about the next thing or what one is missing out on. Anxiety is a big issue, not just for the college students I work with, but for more and more people of all ages. Related to this increased anxiety is the challenge many of us have with being fully present in the moment. While I can’t explain it fully here, I do believe cultivating the ‘fear of the Lord’ helps us learn to be present not only with God, but with one another, and in various ways this is a great antidote to many contemporary forms of anxiety.
Tyler: You say, "To be human is to be vulnerable." More than choosing vulnerability or not, we simply are vulnerable because we are humans. But often opening myself up to others causes pain of rejection and misunderstanding. What do you say to the person who often avoids vulnerability for this reason?
Kelly: First, I would want to emphasize that vulnerability is more of a recognition of our inability to control everything than it is about sharing deep secrets or fears with everyone. Part of what is so challenging for us is the myth that if we were just diligent enough we could protect ourselves and all those we love from all dangers and heartbreak. We often have an unspoken assumption that when something goes wrong, it is just because we didn’t do something right: our diet should have been healthier, we should have studied harder, made more money, exercised more…. But that simply isn’t true.
It goes back to the temptation we started with—believing we are supposed to be infinite. That we should be able to control everything. But in truth, all of us are limited in countless ways. We can’t know everything, we have limited energy, and our bodies can only be in one place at a time. We are all—by the Creator’s good design—dependent upon God, others, and the earth. That is not a defect, but a part of God’s good creation. Unfortunately, sin twists our relationships and distorts the experience of dependence we were meant for, and that creates challenges and confusion. But even before there was sin, creatures were necessarily vulnerable, so recognizing that can be liberating.
Second, appreciating our vulnerability doesn’t require we need to share our insecurities, sins, and fears with everyone. Not everyone is trustworthy, nor do they need to know. But we do need some people to know us well, who help us carry the weight and experience the joy of fellowship. Appreciating our vulnerability encourages us to invest in friendships in which we can uphold one another. This is a way of resisting the myth of radical individualism that is so negatively affecting us in our society.
Living with a healthy recognition of our vulnerability does mean learning to ask more questions than always feeling like you should give answers. It means starting to appreciate what strengths others have that you lack, and then encouraging them in those gifts, rather than always viewing them as competition. It means not pretending you can handle everything, but learning to seek help in small and big ways. Ideally, a Church’s culture starts to value and honor human vulnerability, and when that happens people are encouraged to share their burdens with trusted sisters and brothers in Christ, and as that happens in mutually edifying ways, we discover people are quicker to help one another. Real community emerges. What we discover is that we all need help and we all have something to offer. None of us are purely to receive, nor are any of us only to give. We are invited to both. We are all vulnerable, which is just a fancy way of saying God designed us to need one another. And that isn’t something we need to apologize for.